"The language of feelings" - An interview with Paul Masvidal of Cynic

As you probably know, my favorite band is Cynic. For the last 15 years they have had a lasting impact on my consciousness in a way that I can scarcely describe. They are a band of beauty, heaviness, patience, and deeply intense introspection – a band of such artistic grace that they exist as a total anomaly. In my personal trek through 7 years of music school and more hours in the music library than any other student I knew, I came upon few composers and players who instilled in me a feeling of thrill and calm. As they quote Emerson's "Maia" - a poem about the "dual scales of Maya/Maia and man's "thirst to be deceived" by innumerable misapprehensions and thoughts - they instilled in me quite the dual experience: the experiences of visceral driving energy and also placid surrendered serenity.

Last summer I wrote about them in a celebratory post. In February I saw them in Maryland (posted here) on their tour with Meshuggah to promote their album Traced In Air and was simply elated. Next Tuesday I will see them in Virginia at Jaxx where they will be headlining (post pending). From the rumors floating around we are led to believe that they might play everything.

All that said, the founder, lead guitar player, and vocalist, Paul Masvidal (pictured at right courtesy of cyniconline.com), agreed to an interview. I hope you enjoy the exchange.

The questions are decidedly not standard metal faire. Generally, music journalists have focused on Cynic's history as part of the Florida death metal scene, as a child of Chuck Schuldiner's band Death, and/or as an oddity because of their elaborate use of incredible equipment. All of that has been instructive and provided us all with a sense how to place Cynic within metal. That was not my purpose.

I think that what you'll find in the following interview is Paul's deep sense of intrinsic connectedness to the process of music and to a person who just experiences his own becoming. Intellect is subsumed by experience and experience is the wellspring of beauty, anger, introspection and actually more experience. Read on as we try "disassembl[e] the captain's chair."

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Peter Buckland: In an interview about 16 years ago you said something to the effect of, “I can’t write anything angry anymore.” What happened between say Death’s Human and Cynic’s Focus that switched that? There is a shift there. I think I hear some of that beauty in [Death's] “Cosmic Sea” to what came later. But can you talk about that transition more?

Paul Masvidal: Just prior to the Human period I began a regular meditation practice. For me the change was subtle, but I found at my core beyond the externals of "life stuff" a real stillness. When life took on a more gentle approach, the me-against-the-world feelings were dissipated and anger become something more hidden and subtle yet still very much there. I can tune into certain forms of anger now, but the charge is different. The energy of anger is similar to depression and can be very complex and juicy which provides for some interesting results as an artist. I'm not exactly sure what caused the shift other than the forced patience one acquires when meditating.

I have to sit and be with my mind, and that kind of training over time changes the way we think or don't think. I'm also an avid reader and have always been interested in integrating new psychological tools as a thinking being, so all these factors seem to be interacting with each other.

PB: So when you got to Cynic’s Focus, there was a transformation. Why all of the vocal styles? The album’s opening on “Veil of Maya” was like a newly bloomed tree in metal. Did you have expectations about that?

PM: Beyond the esoteric aspect of the creative process, there's a practical approach to writing that rides on instinct and gut level decision making. I just know when an idea has arrived and I don't know where that understanding comes from other than previous study and practice. The vocal mixes came from the same logic in which we would approach a song arrangement. I like different colors and sometimes particular lyrics or sonic environments call for particular approaches that support the environment better. It's all about communication and finding the most effective way of translating an idea, and trying to not have expectations.

The trick for me is to stay open to possibility and to just allow without forcing my hand. Eventually the music uncovers itself. I just need to keep showing up for it. Often songs feel like they were already written or familiar and I'm just re-discovering it's presence in this realm. The active flow of 'the work' is way more interesting to me than being result-oriented. I guess the only result I'm really interested in is capturing and executing a creative idea properly.

PB: Specifically, why the whispering? Why the female vocals?

PM: Again, the why's behind creative decisions are not really for me to answer. I just trust that it somehow communicates better because of how it feels. We're talking about the language of feelings and it's hard to articulate or intellectualize this kind of thing. I could say, whispers work because they are subtle and mysterious sounding, and female vocals (depending on the voice) can bring a feminine strength to the song that perhaps was needed. Maybe the song was calling for an androgynous balance or energy to it.

These are logical answers to an illogical process. The music informs me and I just try and take orders. I don't really think I have much to do with the decisions here as a person but more as a vehicle translating information properly, if that makes sense.

PB: How do the lyrics and musical textures, rhythms, harmonies interact with the lyrics? I hear a lot of interplay. “Her gay pictures never fail, crowd each other veil on veil.” Are the shifts veils upon veils?

PM: You're picking up on an extremely subtle level of listening which I'm pleased to hear. The words are always interacting with the sound and playing off each other. Some songs explore this idea in a more obvious manner. Most of the time, I find that there's a collective language at play between harmony, melody, rhythm and words. Often that collective doesn't become clear to me till later.

I often don't understand what the song is really doing until long after it's been written. That's why it seems like something beyond me. Although we're calculating every minute detail, we're also completely surrendering to the innate intelligence of the song itself and I'm doing my best to remember that.

PB: As a listener I noticed a lot of continuity between Focus and Traced In Air and I hope I can ask you about those.

First, if you look at the shape and flow of the cover art, there is a nice relationship. Is that purposeful?

PM: Yes, the choice has purpose. When Sean and I saw the new album cover by Venosa, we immediately knew it was right. At the time, Focus was not in our language or a conscious reference, but the more I thought about it, I began to see the relationship. In many ways the Traced cover is an evolution of the Focus cover in terms of the angel/being itself.

PB: I’ve noticed that the Focus artwork seems like the primordial form, the unfocused form, of what evolved into the cover of Traced In Air. I've read that about the "alien" and the "Shiva." How did that work out and how was it important?

PM: I see it now as a yin/yang kind of balance. We made a full circle with this record in many ways and found a wholeness by completing the circle. The raw angelic form of Focus has taken flight, by essentially emerging from that primordial ooze and forming a more human like 'body' of light. The archetypal shape of the covers are working together in a dependent symbiotic fashion. With these images we access not only our primordial ancestry, deeply embedded in our cells and DNA, but also a vast network of energy is available to us in interaction with the Cosmos. Venosa is a tremendous conduit artist working in the transformational field and we're grateful to be working with him again.

PB: Second, there seemed to be a very self-conscious occupation with virtuosity on Focus that isn’t there now. There is more of a feeling of the new album just sort of being what it is. Can you talk about that?

PM: I think it's just the result of maturity as a songwriter. We're more interested in restraint and saying less with more. In some ways Traced In Air is more complex than Focus because of that approach, it's just deceptive and not as obvious. Also confidence in an actualized voice comes into play with the music now versus finding it.

We discovered Focus as it happened. The new album did that too but we approached it with a sense of having an established identity which gives it more 'is'-ness or 'that'-ness. Traced In Air sounds more natural and consistent in that sense because all the songs have a similar intention at their root.

PB: Cynic and Portal use some chanting. Is that informed by spiritual practice? If so, how?

PM: Sure. I've gone through different chanting periods in my practice, and often it will make it's way into a song if it's an active time. My older brother is well-versed in Sanskrit mantra and I occasionally get some insights from him. I also have a friend who's a Vedic astrologer and he often tips me on different mantras and chants that may be of interest depending on what's going on in my life.

PB: In another interview, you said that in a way you have traveled a circle to where you are, to a new place in the universe. The album seems to begin with an invocation, like an invitation to “this space.” So what is this space?

PM: In a general sense, it's whatever you need that space to be as the listener. I'm always interested in spaciousness and how to open myself up to it in my own life. The album is a journey into that place where we can simply breathe and let that be enough. We forget in this day and age that simply breathing is quite a task. I mean in terms of conscious breathing versus unconscious - training our minds and not having it train us.

I recently read somewhere this fabulous quote, it said "Don't just do something. Sit there!" I really connect with that sort of discipline. Where the externals are no longer consuming us and we are able to just be with what is instead of constantly trying to fill the empty space of our lives. We can just allow life to unfold and engage without manipulating and controlling life because we're afraid of the space.

I learned about the invocation aspect of creating space through a good friend of mine who's a shaman and a healer. I've been in ceremony with him and have begun to understand the power of creating a real space or energetic environment. I get to pierce the veil of my current version of reality and see life from what could be perhaps the most naked, raw place in the world.

Basically it's like a mini-death experience that clobbers you over the head in the form of an awakening. It's terrifying and incredibly beautiful at the same time.

PB: The concept of fluidity, of the river and waves, seems important to you. What is it? Why is it there?

PM: I grew up on the water and have always connected with the ocean and water element. I love the images associated with it and how it's often a metaphor for us as spiritual beings having a human experience. We often forget that we're all part of the same ocean and the oneness and non-dual vastness of the cosmic ocean is essentially where we all come from. There's a quantum scientific component to these words. Water is such a critical aspect of creation and matter in general, that it speaks to me in terms of all life. I've also received lot's of practical advice by simply observing a small river or creek. Water is the essence of life itself. I like the idea of befriending the water within and without as one big piece of connective tissue.

PB: “Space for This” seems similar to “Uroboric Forms.” But it’s simpler. It has a more penitential quality. What I mean is that it seems like you are and the musical technique are less in the way, not eating themselves up as much I guess. More mature maybe? Trying to be the space for expression. I don’t know. I guess I am just curious. Will you talk about that?

PM: I guess we've been talking about this since the beginning of the interview. It's about allowing the work to speak for itself and disengaging the person from it. Although the songs can be extremely personal, they also transcend the form. It's not about the teacher, but about the teaching. That's basically how I'd like Cynic's music to be heard. We are just here to communicate information through the medium of music.

PB: The last question and the last song brings up space, another important motif for Cynic. Why space? I think of “Cosmos” too from the Portal demo. Why space, infinity and so on?

PM: The connection to these concepts is more innate and instinct based than anything else. We gravitate towards vastness, space and infinity because they feel familiar and the music explores that energy as ultimate truth.

PB: The other motifs that I find coming up. Why consciousness? Why sleep? Why circles? I know that I’m going after these little particulars, but I guess I wonder how the things merge and intertwine in the course of practice and doing in such a way that Cynic is born. Not that Cynic is just some sum of some parts, but that there seems to be an undercurrent to it all that I long to understand knowing that I might never. Why these motifs?

PM: Consciousness has always been a huge field of interest for me since I got turned onto the work of Ken Wilber. He's like the Einstein of consciousness research. Sleep is intriguing as a process and I'm curious about the nature of sleep and how we can inhabit that resting space consciously. Circles are a perfect form and a universal timeless symbol that has always resonated with me. Again, it's what feels most comfortable in relation to Cynic's sound and color which in many ways is a direct reflection of my own life.

PB: Live, I was intrigued by the spoken word pieces? May I see them? The notion that we do violence to one another through insisting on being right really struck me in part because of where I heard it. Metal is such an insistently anti-authoritarian thing that has its own rightness I think. What is your perception of how people hear that? Does it matter?

PM: It doesn't matter so much as the audience can just participate in the inquiry with us. We're all in the same boat and a live gig for us is exposing and vulnerable for everyone, yet it can be a safe environment too where people get to purge and leave their regular life for a moment and enter a new space. I took these clips from the teacher Eckhart Tolle's, Power Of Now (see here for video).

PB: The other spoken word piece had to do with the mind not being the self. That seemed to sum up much of Cynic. Is there a guiding wisdom to which you hope to lead listeners?

PM: I like the idea of Cynic acting as a messenger for transformational media. Ultimately we're not here to preach or convince anyone. Everyone has their own direct experience that will give them the opportunity to explore who they are. We're just creating an environment in which one gets to potentially see something new or familiar.

PB: I am an evolution nut: big into understanding the incredible processes that have brought about life on Earth, including human beings. I guess you could say that I find joy in the fact that I am related to every other living and non-living thing. What a beautiful accident that we are a conscious piece of the universe. So when I read and listen to “Evolutionary Sleeper” I wonder about it. Why evolution? Why sleep? Why together? What emerges?

PM: Evolutionary sleeper has many layers to it. Simply put, the song explores a self-dialogue with the idea of spiritual / emotional growth where we least expect. The idea of maintaining an attitude of curiosity to our pain or suffering instead of allowing our minds to turn it into something even more difficult. It's not about ignoring or hardening when life's difficult, it's actually the opposite. We lean into the discomfort and allow ourselves to soften as a result. We go gentle and surrender to life. In some ways we have to transcend (or go beyond) mind in order to really see clearly: what emerges is truth itself.

PB: Traced In Air ends with a recourse to the beginning. Does that mean something? Is that the circle? Is it gone?

PM: You got it. Just when the circle's drawn, just then the circle's gone. The contradiction is that we have to make a complete circle in order for us to realize it must disappear. There are no boundaries and that infinite, timeless space is where Cynic's music attempts to reside.

PB: Thank you so much Paul.

PM: Thank you my brother.

PB: From the Tao te Ching 43:

The gentlest thing in the world
overcomes the hardest thing in the world

That which has no substance
enters where there is no space

This shows the value of non-action
Teaching without words
performing without actions:
that is the Master's way.

Peace.

PM: Thanks for the interview Peter. I love the Tao Te Ching. May you find peace in the breath wherever you are.